tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6406430766424642773.post5509356838168368121..comments2023-09-28T12:28:57.598+03:00Comments on Grahnlaw: Britain and EU: Cameron’s exit routeRalf Grahn http://www.blogger.com/profile/02156293782163802007noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6406430766424642773.post-47227755961553298552009-11-06T12:51:02.045+02:002009-11-06T12:51:02.045+02:00Hoover,
You exaggerate my cheerleading role for ...Hoover, <br /><br />You exaggerate my cheerleading role for the Lisbon Treaty. <br /><br />In my view, the Lisbon Treaty enhances the role of the directly elected European Parliament, it is better than the Treaty of Nice and no better basic document was on offer. <br /><br />At the same time, the Lisbon Treaty falls short of the democratic standards the European Union and the Council of Europe require of their member states, and the more faithful readers of my blog can hardly have missed my intentions, described above the posts. <br /><br />Your previous comments gave no hint about your endeavours for EU level democracy, but I welcome them. <br /><br />Let us continue, in our individual manners. When there are enough of us, our leaders will see the sum as a movement.Ralf Grahn https://www.blogger.com/profile/02156293782163802007noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6406430766424642773.post-63715569391452406342009-11-06T12:15:50.770+02:002009-11-06T12:15:50.770+02:00"I see no reason why I should take personal r..."I see no reason why I should take personal responsibility for the structural weaknesses of the European Union"<br /><br />Like Pontius Pilate!<br /><br />And I notice the subtle change from "undemocratic" to the euphemistic "structural weakness". By altering the word for the thing do you hope the thing itself will change? Such an approach has been analysed and exposed by everyone from Havel to Milosz.<br /><br />You say we need patience to establish democracy. This is incredible and shocking to my ears. There was NOTHING to prevent Lisbon introducing more democracy in the first place.<br /><br />I say "nothing", but in fact that's not accurate. The abilities of the framers and their willingness to introduce democracy were major obstacles. And I noticed no Jeffersons in the constitutional convention.<br /><br />You ask me to join the movement for a democratic Europe. I have fought in my little man way for a more democratic EU for years. It's ironic that a cheerleader for Lisbon should now ask me to join "the movement."<br /><br />No, my ego and my natural autonomy wants no part of your "movement". Movements repel me - I see the horrors they have achieved in twentieth century history. I'll continue fighting in an atomised way, and continue to be derided by fans of the EU project as a complainer and a destructive element, who brings only negativity. That's the rent I pay to a different ideal to yours.Hoovernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6406430766424642773.post-65461023033496543842009-11-05T18:54:21.004+02:002009-11-05T18:54:21.004+02:00Hoover,
I see no reason why I should take person...Hoover, <br /><br />I see no reason why I should take personal responsibility for the structural weaknesses of the European Union, but as an EU citizen I do my small bit daily in favour of a democratic European Union. <br /><br />The more people join the movement for a democratic and effective Europe, the sooner it will become a reality. <br /><br />So, please join.Ralf Grahn https://www.blogger.com/profile/02156293782163802007noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6406430766424642773.post-65556258498864326072009-11-05T18:48:46.315+02:002009-11-05T18:48:46.315+02:00French Derek,
Thank you for your comment; now as...French Derek, <br /><br />Thank you for your comment; now as always a pleasure to read them.Ralf Grahn https://www.blogger.com/profile/02156293782163802007noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6406430766424642773.post-55622580574300033412009-11-05T18:42:42.025+02:002009-11-05T18:42:42.025+02:00"Patience is actually needed for another aim:..."Patience is actually needed for another aim: the establishment of the union on its citizens, i.e. European level democracy."<br /><br />Well thanks for the frank admission that the EU isn't democratic.<br /><br />What did our generation do to your generation to deserve this? Aren't you ashamed of bequeathing younger people such an undemocratic mess?<br /><br />Perhaps you feel it'll toughen us up - this fight that we will have to pursue to achieve democracyb in Europe? Very character-building, I'm sure!Hoovernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6406430766424642773.post-83077946141039198822009-11-05T17:38:53.402+02:002009-11-05T17:38:53.402+02:00Ralf - just a quick response to your remark on my ...Ralf - just a quick response to your remark on my "soft spot for Mrs Thatcher". No "soft spot", I promise. But<br />1. the media portrayal of her actions was either how the media wanted their public to be fed the story, or was how politicians wanted their leaks to be reported.<br /><br />2. I like to rile europhobes by reporting what I have been assured is the truth about her actions in the EU.french dereknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6406430766424642773.post-55232906179983895542009-11-05T05:37:17.436+02:002009-11-05T05:37:17.436+02:00Hoover,
Quite the optimist, are you?
Patience ...Hoover, <br /><br />Quite the optimist, are you? <br /><br />Patience is actually needed for another aim: the establishment of the union on its citizens, i.e. European level democracy.Ralf Grahn https://www.blogger.com/profile/02156293782163802007noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6406430766424642773.post-19042075457981333922009-11-04T22:06:59.236+02:002009-11-04T22:06:59.236+02:00"The European Union is no dictatorship, but a..."The European Union is no dictatorship, but a voluntary union of states (but with some democratic elements). No occupying forces, secret police or Gulag camps keep the countries or their citizens subdued."<br /><br />Not yet, anyway. I'm sure you'll get your wish in time, but don't be impatient.Hoovernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6406430766424642773.post-15441874381861688652009-11-04T19:13:08.630+02:002009-11-04T19:13:08.630+02:00French Derek,
David Cameron has just outlined To...French Derek, <br /><br />David Cameron has just outlined Tory policy on Europe, predictably, which means initiating negotiations to repatriate some powers (social, employment, justice including ECJ jurisdiction), a parliamentary act on 'sovereignty' and a referendum lock on every new EU competence. <br /><br />I wonder how his proposals fare among Conservative grass roots - some are fuming - and when the other EU members have to confront the demands. <br /><br />According to the Lisbon Treaty (Article 2(2) TFEU) the member states can again exercise their competence if the EU has decided to cease exercising its competence, but this applies to the union as a whole, while Cameron proposes special treatment for the UK. <br /><br />You seem to have a soft spot for Mrs Thatcher; admittedly she approved the Single European Act.Ralf Grahn https://www.blogger.com/profile/02156293782163802007noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6406430766424642773.post-49331966715995358562009-11-04T18:33:07.637+02:002009-11-04T18:33:07.637+02:00Ralf Another helpful post, thank you. I have noted...Ralf Another helpful post, thank you. I have noted elsewhere - but it needs emphasising - that, if Cameron wants a role model revered by UK Tories, then he should look to Mrs Thatcher. <br /><br />She worked for the better good of the UK - within the EU (ie as a contributing member). And she did that through debate, rather than table-thumping. The EU as a whole was improved by her efforts.french dereknoreply@blogger.com