tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6406430766424642773.post1923247367440525220..comments2023-09-28T12:28:57.598+03:00Comments on Grahnlaw: European values and Hungarian media law: ECHRRalf Grahn http://www.blogger.com/profile/02156293782163802007noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6406430766424642773.post-56680109375729615112011-01-11T04:41:59.347+02:002011-01-11T04:41:59.347+02:00Eurocentric,
Legally the Council of Europe throu...Eurocentric, <br /><br />Legally the Council of Europe through the European Convention on Human Rights and the Court offer a more substantial bulwark against infringements of human rights and fundamental freedoms by governments than the European Union. <br /><br />Politically, however, the EU has defined its founding values and it wants to promote them in the wider world as well. <br /><br />The EU can become credible in the eyes of its citizens and of actors on the world stage only if it is exemplary. <br /><br />It is not enough that the EU institutions raise their standards if they allow member states to tarnish the reality and image of the union.<br /><br />The member states need to take a principled approach. <br /><br />For instance the Europarties are in a crucial position. Do they primarily protect their members or the rights of EU citizens?Ralf Grahn https://www.blogger.com/profile/02156293782163802007noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6406430766424642773.post-20647545071743545152011-01-10T18:21:25.856+02:002011-01-10T18:21:25.856+02:00Then I'm probably taking the debate over on EU...Then I'm probably taking the debate over on EUphobic too seriously! Sadly, from what I've read, there is a lot of defensiveness when it comes to discussing rights in a European setting. Hopefully we can reach the stage when everyone can engage in a European debate about rights, because the culture of rights in the EU (and wider Council of Europe) is important for everyone.Eurocentrichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09439536905456080079noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6406430766424642773.post-51346955774612423782011-01-10T14:47:56.921+02:002011-01-10T14:47:56.921+02:00step21,
You are right, confused and confusing to...step21, <br /><br />You are right, confused and confusing to a degree that it is hard to believe that EUphobia is serious.Ralf Grahn https://www.blogger.com/profile/02156293782163802007noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6406430766424642773.post-42634071879946093252011-01-10T13:59:50.963+02:002011-01-10T13:59:50.963+02:00EUphobia reads (and especially the comments) read ...EUphobia reads (and especially the comments) read like they want to be made fun of and are just proving everyone's point. Of course on the other hand it is also quite depressing.<br />I mean 'Our governments value set is quite open and simple: “Work, Family, Home, Health, Order”' how can you write that with a straight face, especially when (apparently) being against a lot of people who said those same things ... even communists ^^.step21noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6406430766424642773.post-2760947385133745532011-01-10T11:17:20.781+02:002011-01-10T11:17:20.781+02:00nickp,
Most of what you say is quite right. Euro...nickp, <br /><br />Most of what you say is quite right. Europeans in general know fairly little about the Council of Europe and the European Convention on Human Rights (but well enough to have swamped the Court (ECtHR) with cases).<br /><br />Anyway, the ECHR is the bulwark against many kinds of infringements against the rights of inhabitants, because hardly any European government is prepared for the shame of joining Belarus out in the cold (which is ultimately the result if the state does not comply with its obligations and Court decisions - although Russia and "-stans" have pushed the limits). <br /><br />Point 2) Here too, Europe - US parallel can be used. US Constitution uses sweeping terms and brief text, so the Supreme Court has in the end defined what the Constitution means. <br /><br />ECHR has fairly precise wording (and more modern), but ECtHR case law gives the (evolving) standards applicable, including margin of appreciation for national governments. <br /><br />3) Fluid can also be called evolving, developing or improving, since the CoE (and we) see this as a quest for higher standards and better protection for individuals (although we need our political entities to remain governable, so it is not as simple as allowing everything). <br /><br />Nick, thank you for your comment and your kind words on Twitter.Ralf Grahn https://www.blogger.com/profile/02156293782163802007noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6406430766424642773.post-37127485262679572262011-01-10T09:45:15.483+02:002011-01-10T09:45:15.483+02:00Dear Ralf,
For the sake of discussion, the ECHR o...Dear Ralf,<br /><br />For the sake of discussion, the ECHR of the CoE: <br /><br />1) is not as embedded in public opinion & Europeans as the Constitution to Americans (even they are not fully aware of its articles or misunderstand them, eg right to bear arms)<br /><br />2) Article 10.1-2 are, in my eyes (not a lawyer) not that clear, ie quite fuzzy. <br /><br />3) IMO European values, emerging after the mistakes of the 20th cent. are not cast in stone, they are still fluid IMO that's why reaction to new media law important! :)<br /><br />N. Panayotopoulos (@nppolicyanalyst)<br /><br />PS. From a political (in its pure Ancient Athenian sense) POV, IMO the cornerstone of free speech AND Democracy is the right of media and above all citizens (ie in 2010 includes bloggers, vloggers, tweeters, etc) to criticise the government and state for its policies & actions and in general to be free to have and express their views on so call "public"/civic (as opposed to private) issues/affairs (even w/o of course a requirement for "balance" or "non bias", esp for citizens).Nick P.https://www.blogger.com/profile/15577512363021154454noreply@blogger.com